Ama: Welcome to high, low brow. The podcast with high-brow takes about low-brow culture. I'm Amanda Scriver!

Danita: I'm Danita Steinberg. How was your week Danita? I feel like I'm just in this fugue state of existence. I've been listening to a lot of Aqua. And I'm yeah. Look,  Aquarium is so good. It's I was really like in a rabbit hole of Aqua last night and that album slaps.

I have a very young neighbor across the way from me. And he is probably what is she listening to? He's probably like 20 years old. He's is this old crone music? I feel like he just D I, not that I've talked to him about it, but that's just the narrative I've given him. He probably doesn't care.

He's always gaming. But yeah that's where I am and I'm just trying to figure out how to never get my period. 

Ama: Again. I love that and I support it in every single way. I hate my period am on like three medications. To make my pain not be what it is and it's the fucking worst. So thoughts and prayers?

Danita: That's the thing is I feel bad because I don't suffer that much during them, but I just, there's no reason to be getting them in the year of our Lord 20, 21. And unless you want kids and, or even like actively trying to conceive really which I am not, so we don't want it anymore.

We don't want it anymore. So that's my mission. 

Ama: All I can hear in my head right now is that scene from the craft when they say take my scars, but instead it's take my period. Take my period. Take my period. Yeah. 

Danita: Yeah. What about you? What's going on? I think a lot of 

Ama: people know me for writing, but I actually work full time in social media, which is, this is fine.

That has been me all week. I've had to deal with anti-vaxxers and I just, Friday came and I was like I'm done like stick a fork at me. People on the internet are like, wow, I, I don't even have words that the amount of things that you will read, someone, equated getting a vaccine shot to having their abortion rates taken away.

And I was like, I don't even, I don't even know how those two things, but okay. Anyways, my week has been. 

Danita: Like that, you've been in the trenches

Ama:  Please be kind to your social media manager. That's it, ok? That's it.
Danita: I, too work in social media full time and I personally love it, I am not getting that kind of toxic stuff thrown at me, but what I do love is when someone is like X brand, fuck you. It makes me laugh my head off. Like I live for it. It's like a small act of resistance and I'm here for it.

Ama: Oh! My team and I - we definitely do keep a folder of those good comments, because they just make our heart sort of pitter-patter every day and we're like, yeah, do it.

Danita: They are what we want to say and cannot.

Ama: Yeah, so that's how my week is going. Not all terrible, but 95% terrible. 

Danita: We are happy to be recording today. What are we talking about first? 

Ama: I feel like we have to talk first and foremost about this Kathy Hilton situation on Real Housewives?

Danita: I think we have some controversial opinions that I think are going to be interesting to to talk about and listeners enjoy Kathy Hilton. All you want. I enjoy her too. She's good TV. She's wacky. She's quirky. She's drinking a red bull at one in the morning. But I feel like I personally was very nervous to hear her coming on as a friend of and more of a regular castmate.

How did you feel Ama when you heard the news about Kathy?

Ama: genuinely? I was like, huh. Interesting. For a few reasons. So one, I knew that Kathy, from how Kyle had set up her resistance to Kyle's projects, so American girl in documenting their life, growing up as through childhood, Kathy was super resistant to that.

So that was interesting. And it was like, oh, so like now she wants to be involved in the show. That's super interesting. And then watching the Paris Hilton documentary gave us a little more insight into Who Kathy was as a person. And there were an immediate red flags that went off for me into, and maybe Kathy doesn't didn't realize what her behavior and the things that she was doing signaled.

But for those of us who have experienced this type of behavior, toxic behavior in our lives before immediately, I was like, huh, I see you Kathy Hilton. And I'm not sure. That I trust. Yeah. What 

about you?

Danita:  I have watched the Richards sisters for more than a decade. I think ish. And at first I loved it for the drama.

The iconic the Kyle Kim house limo fight, iconic Housewives moment, who can forget that can forget you stole my goddamn house. That being said, the more that I hear about their mom, it sounds like to me that their mom was perhaps a narcissist and often number one destroyed all of their self-esteem.

I think there's something to say that all three of them were child actors, and that probably didn't help their self-esteem either. But I do think that their mom and mind you, I've never seen their mom. I've never heard her speak. Like she died. I'll watch it like before the show. So I'm just going by what I've, what, I've, what they've shared, what I've observed, the way that it seems like their mom pitted the sisters against each other and created this environment of competition.

I think, because to me, that's the only explanation for the Richard sisters, tumultuous relationship chips. And every family has their problems. Every family, he has their own dynamic, but the three of them just seem to be. Quite toxic. And I think Kyle now seeing Kathy I think people, a lot of people expected her to be the bossy older sister, but it's very clear that she is incapable of doing anything for herself.

And of course we know all of Kim's, substance abuse issues. And I think looking at the whole situation now, I think Kyle has had to really take care of everyone, her entire life. That being sad. Kyle's like the main character of Beverly Hills. She's like the O the only OJI remaining on the show.

So we've seen all of this from her perspective and her, her side of things. But I think she takes pride in her. This is Kyle. She takes pride in her ability to care for others and her empathy and that sort of thing. But to me, that's indicative of. A lot of trauma, it's a drama.

Exactly. And yeah. She would probably consider herself like an empath, which I use, I hate to say it, but I considered myself to be one. But now over the past couple of years, I've done some healing and I realized that, yes, that is a trauma response from having to constantly, take care of people and also constantly be aware of everyone else's moods to protect yourself.

Now, 

would you say this might be a controversial, yet brave statement, but would you say that Kyle out of the three of them seems to be the one that has. The most broken the intergenerational trauma that has happened. 

Yeah. That's a really interesting theory because I think that's true. I think she's a great mom and I, her kids seem to be pretty well adjusted.

They're, still rich privileged kids. So they, don't know how to do laundry and stuff, but they all seem to really love each other. They all seem to, it seems to be a really like strong family unit. Whereas I think when you look at Cathy and Paris and their relationship, it seems to be mirror mirroring cat, like little Kathy and big Kathy's relationship.

And, Kim and Kim's kids, they've been through a lot with their moms. So that's like a whole other conversation. 

Ama: You don't really get any insight into the relationship that they have. And I wonder if that's out of. Kim's protection for her kids or Kim's kids. They just don't want to be involved.

They don't want that relationship being shared. Yeah. 

Danita: And over the seasons, there's been times where Kath, Kathy and Kyla really close where Kathy and Kim are really close and Kim and Kyle are really close and they never, the three of them never seem to be on the same page. Like they, they seem to leverage their relationships with each other to get back at the third one that's currently being excluded.

So I think that kind of goes back to their mom kind of setting up this weird competition between the three of them. But back to Kathy in particular, I, I remember that scene. I think when one of Kim's daughters was getting a dress for prom and Kathy showed up and she was very critical and everyone was like, oh, Gabby just says it.

Like it is. I'm like, they all seem to just. Have their own issues. Yeah. I was just going to say, 

Ama: yeah, like that's not the way it should be. Like, there's a way to tell it, like it is, but not be an asshole. 

Danita: I feel like everyone watching the show has like a short memory or maybe they're just like, maybe we're projecting.

I don't know. But, and look, as I said at the beginning, she is very good television. No doubt. Oh 

Ama: yeah. I shared with you that sort of wasn't an ID live that they did the other day where Kathy was just literally like talking nonsense and it's don't get me wrong. I watched that. And it was fucking hilarious, but I also don't love this narrative that they're pushing and it seems almost like a PR play to be like, oh, look at Kathy.

She's just so funny and relatable. And it's is she relatable? Is 

Danita: she funny? Here's the thing. And I was watching, I've been rewatching Vanderpump rules and I've been really looking at jacks and 

Ama: oh, that we could spend an entire episode 

Danita: on it. Clearly a narcissist possibly as borderline personality disorder.

Like all of the signs are there. Obviously they're not going to bring that up on the show, but they just talk about his behavior as something he can change if he wanted to versus being like, no, you need like years of therapy to unpack what's going on with you. But my larger point is the more that I personally learn about personality disorders, the less enjoyable reality television is because they all have personality disorders.

Yeah. Do you have any final thoughts on KP Hilton while we're here? 

Ama: I think to, to all of our lovely fans and listeners, if you want to, if you want to like Cathy, do 

Danita: you, but want to just take it for face value and be like, this is just like a fun show. And at the end of the day she has good TV.

So enjoy that. I think we're just, I feel nervous. That's all I can say. I feel nervous. Yeah. Yeah. I think the other thing we wanted to touch on quite quickly, I think it'll be less of a discussion. There was a New York times article that was really taking the internet by storm this week and truly not in a good way.

The article was how to rearrange your post pandemic friend scape. By Kate Murphy, who has a couple other questionable articles on friendship and the New York time. So you can look those up. What were your thoughts when you when you saw this article while it should let me read the part that was really making people feel understandably.

So she writes indeed depressed friends, make it more likely you'll be depressed, obese friends, make it more likely you'll become obese and friends who smoke or drink a lot, make it more likely you'll do the same. The reverse is also true. You will be more studious kind and enterprising. If you consort with studious kind and enterprising people, that is not to say that you should abandoned friends when they're having a hard time, but it's a good idea to be mindful of who you're spending the majority of your time with whether on or offline, because your friends, prevailing moods, values and behaviors are likely to become your own.

Ama: I have thoughts. I read it and then I was like, immediately tweeted the hi I'm fat. And if you want to eat me from your post pandemic friend scape, I'm totally chill with that. Basically. If you think that I'm a problem that needs to be like a raced from your post pandemic friendship group, maybe we shouldn't have been friends in the first place.

If you can't make space for me when I'm fat or depressed, or like any of the things like I have complex PTSD, I have depression. I have add, I have probably a whole host of other shit that I don't even know about. If you think that's gonna rub off on you or like also make you the things or you can't hold space for that.

Yeah, get the fuck out of my life. Like I don't need that 

Danita: post pandemic friend scaping. I am going to get rid of any of my friends that are not fat and or depressed, like it's the opposite for me. And I think the, one of the main issues with this article is this piece is that she's making the claim that you can't be fat and or depressed, and also a good person.

You can't be kind, you can't be studious. But and that's like that's not true. And she does say, there's this isn't to say that you should, dump your friends when they're having a bad time. So she's okay with like situational depression, but anything chronic she's like peace out.

See you later, receive never actually is what she's saying. And as someone who's often depressed, that sucks, 

Ama: yeah, there's some of my friends who I like have literally, we've only sent texts to each other, like a few times or this entire, like however long the pandemic has been going on because literally that's all they have the capacity for.

Yeah. And I like love them implicitly and I don't give a shit if that's all they can do. Because at the end of the day, I still love them as my friend and I don't care about anything else. I care that they're safe and they're taking care of themselves. And if I can meet them where they're at, that's all that fucking matters.

That's what a friendship should 

Danita: be. This article is coming from a very neuro-typical place and a very hetero place to, yup. For me, my friends are my family. My friends are my community and I wouldn't dream of dropping any of them. So to, to read that, I really felt sad for this writer and the way that she thinks about people and her friends.

And she talks about how hard it is to keep friends. And I know everyone's really busy, but I don't know. She frames friendship as like this burden almost, I don't know. Let's talk to your friends that you dumped. I want to hear about how they feel about you. 

Ama: Yes. I would love that. Let's go chat with them. I want one of them to write a New York times article that there was a really great Twitter thread by captain awkward. I am not going to read it, but I will include it in the show notes. Yeah. Yeah. So that other people can read it because it really breaks down a lot of what the issues were with this piece.

And also like why, like it critiqued it in such a really great way where it says basically that, people are allowed to you're allowed to get rid of toxic friends, but they shouldn't be for X, Y, and Z reasons. And there's nuance in this, but this ain't it. 

Emily: Yeah. 

Ama: I guess the final thing, and then we'll kick it off to our actual episode.

Yay. Did you, I know I sent this to you, but like Jen Shaw, trying to go fund me $2.5 million for her legal fees. Like bitch, come on. Are you kidding me? I can't. Yeah, 

Danita: That's not it. That's not it. But she's so diluted. So delusional. I was never on the gen job boat go away, disappear. I'm just not leading it.

Ama: If I could bring that men in black, like mind a race thing, 

Danita: I would. And on that note, what can people expect coming up in just a few seconds? Who are we talking to? 

Ama: Okay. Gosh we're going to talk to the team from the team. Jesus. That sounds so corporate. Holy 

Danita: shit.

Let me just ping you. I'm just 

Ama: going to ping you on teams. Hang on one second. Okay. So we decided for first episode, we were going to bring in comedians, Emily Richardson and Marshall Lorenzo from trash box. They have a podcast that's dedicated entirely to the real Housewives, and we're actually talking all about homophobia and the real Housewives world.

We've got in the house with us today. Emily Richardson and Marshall Lorenzo from trash box, a real Housewives podcast. Thank you so much for 

Marshall: being you.

Ama: And we've got an immediate episode to talk about today. We're going to be talking about homophobia and the real Housewives universe, and let's be real like. There's a lot of it that goes on. So where do we even begin? 

Marshall: We start at the beginning, which is the marriage equality March in Roni, Sonya versus Alex McCord.

Yeah. Cares. 

Emily: I care. I care because your main goal, that's what you care 

Ama: about. Marriage equality, 

Danita: Alex, this is only 

Emily: like the TV that was left on. No. You have the lobster

it's about them. Not you. Exactly. 

Ama: Yeah. That was definitely a moment. 

Marshall: A YouTube clip came up recently and it ends basically with Ramona being like, cause Ramona doesn't go because she just doesn't believe in that. Yeah. She's straight up is yeah. If gay people want to do that's their business.

But I don't think they should get married. Wow. Yeah. Oh, I bet. No shock. 

Ama: Yeah. That's typical Ramona. Let's be honest. And I don't know if any of you, like either of you have seen, there was an article released in 2017 by a trans journalist. Her name was Serena denari. I apologize, Serena, if I have mispronounced your name, but Serena actually put this, it was for Mike and she put together this it was a sort of chart of when the homophobia started in the Housewives cinematic universe.

And Serena says that the first time was probably in 2009, when Tamra homo. 

Marshall: That's so weird that she called him a homo too. I I regret what I said, but I stand by it. 

Emily: Yeah. 

Marshall: Slade. Yeah. It's, I don't watch a lot of OCD, so it's hard to tell with them. One can assume they all are Trump voters.

That kind of sounds like a very like 2009 era off the cuff thing to say, but given the deep dark void of horribleness, that is the OSI. It probably comes with a huge side of hate. Yeah. 

Emily: Correct. OSI is rough. 

Danita: I do watch a lot of OSI and it is so rife with homophobia. With Eddie, with Tamara's husband, there's like a whole plot line about everyone calling him gay and wondering if he's gay.

And then of course, Bronwyn and the latest season coming out as a lesbian and like the cast reactions to that Vicky really 

Emily: horrible devil. 

Marshall: Yeah. And then this is complete like segue, but like you get this kind of like vibe from Kelly as well. That at any moment she could say the F word at the drop of a hat, she's got the F word ready.

It's just a vibe. It's an OSI vibe, California vibes, which can, which Kelly. 

Emily: Kelly. Yeah. Kelly Dodd as Kelly dot Ben 

Marshall: Simone. Who's the other Kelly, Ben Simone, who has said the effort many times. It has no idea what it means. 

Ama: I got to meet Kelly Dodd one time. And let me tell you, 

Emily: please tell us what she liked.

Jealous. 

Ama: Yeah. Okay. Actually, it was at a drag brunch, which is even more like 

Marshall: my spidey senses tingling 

Ama: and Priyanka was actually performing and. Priyanka gave Rick a laptop. Okay. Fox news, if you can believe, if you can even believe. Like that's pretty, so like 

Emily: for her, 

Ama: but yes Kelly is exactly how you would imagine Kelly would be in, in real life.

That's exactly 

Marshall: how she was. That's upsetting and gross, 

Emily: It's funny it's so funny because obviously there's such a huge queer fan base for these shows and it's like the Sonja Morgan types, like grey gardens, hot mess. I can understand why a lot of them are like, quote unquote or think they're gay icons or whatever.

But so many 

Marshall: of them, Sonya is a guy icon. Yeah. 

Emily: Is that official Marshall? 

Marshall: Yep. I'm sorry. I just fact, yeah, 

Emily: I just, so many of them are so problematic and if you really got down to it, it's their opinions about gay rights, trans rights, it would be, they would be incorrect. 

Ama: I feel so.

Actually, when I was doing my research for this episode, I came across this like big thing in 2019, where I guess it was Sonia and Dorinda. They went to New York fashion week and they actually made some transphobic comments against, I don't know if it was against, it was overheard while they were at a show, but it was towards one of the models in a Guero sparrows show.

Sonya is a gay icon. I am with you right there, Marshall. But do we give space and time for people to grow and understand these things? Or do we just straight up cancel them? 

Marshall: That's a pretty easy answer. Yes, we do give space to Sonja Morgan. No, we do not give space to Ramon a singer.

This is actually something that should be amplified and use as an example in wider cancel culture. Here is an example of someone who potentially could go in loan. Here's someone who needs to go to hell immediately. First, first class, like all the way downtown. 

Emily: It's so complicated. 

Ama: Yeah. And I, yeah. Yeah.

And I think that's like a good example. Yo, it told, I think, 

Marshall: Also OSI as an example too, like I don't see any growth potentially happening now. I really don't like I see them all acknowledging maybe, transphobia, racism, whatever, but not actively doing anything about it.

If that makes sense. 

Emily: They're there. This is my opinion, obviously. That's my opinion. Every that's my opinion. And I feel like their way of looking at cancel culture, their way of looking at things they've said that our offensive is more like a lot of celebrities, which is I'm covering my ass.

Oh, I need to grow AKA. I don't, I shouldn't say these things anymore because I'm going to get in trouble or kicked off the show, or Andy's going to get mad at me. That's more kind of how I see them dealing with that. 

Marshall: Unless of course, you're Kelly Dodd and you don't really connect the dots and your firing is imminent.

And yet you still stay on message. Yeah.

Danita: I think with the OSI, it's very it's a very sheltered place. Like it's not a metropolitan place. And I think we're so used to the other, like Los Angeles and New York city and these much more like city ish places. And the OSI is just like a trashy suburb. Like it's not nice, so I think these, I think I was saying before we started recording that they are definitely the least rich of the Housewives which doesn't automatically make you homophobic.

But I do think they're just a little less educated, a little bit last, less worldly, and actually I popped in here because I wanted to quote an article from Buzzfeed news from. Shannon Keating called the real Housewives has a lesbian problem, which is such a great article. And it's mostly about Bronwyn from the OSI, but she starts it by saying being a real Housewives fan means striking a tricky balance in order to indulge in the franchises, many pleasures ranking husbands from horrible to full-blown nightmares, drinking up every ridiculous fight and increasingly unhinged accusation.

You must also steel yourself against everything. It's 

Emily: really true. Cause it's really misogynist to the way they paint these women. Andy's 

Marshall: problematic too. Oh, no, it's not Andy. That's asking the questions. It's Denise from Des Moines.

Danita: Yeah. There's I think it's less how they portray the women or more how they market the women. I think. Yes. If you don't watch real Housewives, you think it is all about the cattiness, but there's actually so much more nuance and depth to most 

Ama: food. Just going back to like the Bronwyn coming out story and how that was handled.

There's so much more happening there than just like her coming out. When you look at the relationship that's happening between her and her mom, there's a lot of trauma going on there and perhaps 

Danita: yes, 

Ama: Is Bronwyn a lesbian? I don't know. Is it for me to question. Probably not. I hope that she finds whatever it is that jives for her.

And I wish her well, but it sucks to have to go out on TV and then live all of that in front of everybody. 

Marshall: The costing and producing of the show comes into question a little bit, because if you see the second that the camera was pointed at Bronwyn, all you're seeing is someone like visibly shaking visibly, like at a 10, like visibly unwell.

Yeah. And they say, great, perfect housewife off you go knowing full well, what the full arc of the story is going to be. They know full well that this is only going to end badly. And as I show, they argued with most Housewives is maybe there's like a triumphant arch. And maybe she comes through at the other end and which often they do, but this one was particularly traumatic to watch.

Ama: Yeah. I, in a lot of ways, I related to Bronwyn's story. But not entirely I don't think I'm going to end up on a reality television show and be like, this is my coming out story. I related to a lot of the things that she was going through and I wanted to just give her a hug.

Danita: I think there's probably a lot of narcissism and real Housewives and they all need a lot of healing. But I also think with ours, we live in a society and there's so much like compulsory heterosexuality. And so I don't think it's unheard of for women, especially to come out later in life or realize that they're bisexual or lesbian or somewhere on the queer spectrum.

And so I think that is very interesting to show, like I think about, Sonia maybe. Coming into that a little bit more. And I think about Barbara also on real Housewives of New York. And he was like, everyone knows she's a lesbian, like everyone knows she's a lesbian. 

Marshall: Are you saying that like as a viewer, yeah, everyone knows Barbara is a lesbian, or are you saying that as in you've been on Reddit, you've you've read receipts.

Danita: I think everyone in the show knows it. Like I really do. And they're all, they all just tippy toe around it. And then Ramona makes weird comments about Barbara having a crush on her or whatever it is. And it's are we not past? I don't think 

Emily: so. I don't want to make this an ageist opinion, but when they were in their twenties, let's say someone like Ramona or a Vicky who are boomers, I'm going to guess it wasn't as chill to make out with a girl at a party at, a sorority.

So this could be coming out later. Again, I am in no way a psychologist. But yeah, I feel there's definitely an age thing because a lot of the things that real house I've say, I wouldn't put it past, like my aunts or my mom's friends. I like to think my mom's better than that, but it's a lot of just culturally insensitive stuff that they just don't quite get.

Ama: I don't know. 

Marshall: Yeah. They don't, I'll speak for my parents when I I think they've learned having two gay kids like that. Okay. So they don't fully understand it all, so they're just shut up, so they just, that's the way that they deal with it. It's just we just won't say our opinion out loud.

I can't, it's the thing. I forget every single time. And I'll be watching a reunion and I'm like, Wow. How would I do in this room? Or like MPV, if you're at a party I'm like, would I feel comfortable in this room talking to all of them? And if I really think about it, the answer is no to a lot of the franchises.

It's a little scary 

Ama: you. It is. It's interesting that you bring up this point because Ms. Lawrence actually has gone on the record saying that the entire reason that they left the real Housewives franchise was because they were unconsciously homophobic and like actively stealing from queer culture.

So do you think that people are often, like two times they're too critical about this? Or do you really think that they're trying or actively trying to be homophobic 

Marshall: when you say they, you mean just the Housewives in general? Yeah, I think it's that thing of the ignorance and they think it's fun and yeah.

I don't know. I do. I wonder a lot about Sonya, because she does have a lot of queer people around her most of the time. Okay. And not the worst people either. This has been, I think she's friends with like aquaria at some point. Yeah. And I was like, okay. I don't think someone like aquaria would let.

Microaggressions slide. So like Sonya seems like someone who might be a little bit better, cause she's donated to the lb. Gooky G2, Goggle, liberal. Good at her boy. It's not mine. So I'm hopeful there. But then again, maybe that's just my bias love for Sonia blinding me. 

Emily: I think so. Just probably surrounded by a lot of, yes, people in sick offense as well.

Who, when she does do the old Housewives trope lineup, my gaze and accessorizing queer people, maybe she's not called on it all the time. Cause they just want to party at the townhouse. 

Ama: I would love to go to a party at the townhouse just saying, Sonya, you can call me anytime I am 

Marshall: available.

But like I couldn't spend it. I couldn't have a meal with Ramona. I couldn't have a meal. I feel like I could do it with Lou, with Leah, with her just to keep things on track. Yeah. In terms of the other franchises. Beverly Hills would be a little bit tough to I can see Kyle been being a lot of woo, come on, queen.

Yes. Diva. 

Emily: In preparation for this podcast, I have a terrible memory. It's all the weed drink I drink. And I was cause I saw it probably Beverly Hills a few years ago. I think that was kinda my entry into the Housewives. So they can be 2015. So I forgotten a lot and I really need to rewatch.

And in season five, Kyle had a bring your gay mixer as a sort of let's hook up 

Marshall: all the games. I totally forgotten about this. And 

Emily: she says, I wrote down, gays are like girlfriends without the drama and sometimes more drama. And she continually my gaze and Renna keeps saying that my gaze and Andy, watch what happens live teachable moment, which featured Lance bass and Luanne was like, listen, we're not your accessories.

And he really, he took them to task and not in front of Kyle because he loves Kyle. But it was like, they can't keep doing this it's so it, unfortunately it is very like 2006, almost like when I was a teenager. And I don't know. I feel like people were saying that a lot and I feel like we got over that thankfully, but some people haven't 

Marshall: obviously.

Yeah, wait, sorry. Was he saying this to, to Lou or was he saying to the 

Emily: Camera? And then Lou was Lou and Lance bass were there. 

Marshall: Lou was going absolutely. 

Emily: Yeah, absolutely.

Marshall: I have never try and find the footage. Yeah, God, I love that 

Ama: lie on the Countess would do. 

Marshall: She wouldn't be the audio wouldn't be caught, but yeah, I love that. It's such a, like a love hate with it because it's, that's the guilty pleasure as I'm like, I know that this behavior is not allowed, but at the same time, if she called me on my phone and was like, Hey, gaze, I'd be like, I'll be home for it.

A second. 

Ama: If someone sent you a cameo from like Ramona. Using the F word, you just be like 

Emily: upload to TMZ immediately. Where's my money. 

Marshall: Oh yeah. Immediately within seconds. Marshall, 

Emily: would you say that Sonya is the gay icon of all the franchises? The whole 

Marshall: franchise? Who else could it be?

Like? Actually it's a pretty good separator on like hinge or Tinder or whatever, if it's like, if there are Rinna Stan, for example, then I know swipe the fuck out of here. So yeah, I would say so. Yeah, not Renna, never 

Emily: run it. Erica Kane wants it. Queens 

Marshall: Erica had it for a hot second. She really did.

She had it for a hot second. And then it was like, sorry, can't deal with Mikey. Can't deal with like your husband scamming plane, crash breakdowns. And also go to some anger management or like trauma, like clauses or something. Like just figure it out. Stop, like blocking yourself off emotionally from the world.

That's what the K is really want.

Yeah. Don't we all, 

Danita: yeah. I, we just 

Ama: love, we love a tender vulnerable moment. I don't know if either of you have seen, I'm sure you have. But this discussion about if Eric is going to be able to keep her quiet squad. 

Emily: Yeah. That is very entertaining 

Marshall: to me. I know, Mikey really put all his eggs in one basket.

Didn't they he's going to have to rethink some things. 

Ama: Yeah. It's all over. It's over for this one. 

Danita: I feel like could potentially like 

Marshall: Jerry has, yeah. She's risen from the ashes. It's so awful to see. 

Ama: Yeah, that was not what I was expecting. And I, yeah. 

Marshall: Do you know why?

I think it's working is because she's making decisions that like, don't that are unintentionally camp, like truly unintentionally camp, like Booka w what is it? Book a de Beppo Bebo to Booka like

pepper and Mayo. Yeah. She literally she had to redo a hideous restaurant in the middle of no entrance, even more hideous dining room.

Danita: The whole, I think you've touched on something interesting is that the whole, you never is camp, it's just the definition of camp also. It's quite a lot, especially with New York city. It's a lot. 

Marshall: Yeah.

Danita: Hagsploitation is, queer, Canon. So I think real Housewives really fits into that that John rhe weirdly 

Marshall: enough, which is so funny because I. I never thought that it would be going as long as it is. Like I never really got into, I was when it first came out. Cause I just thought, oh, this isn't going to be around for that long kind of thing.

And then I started watching it when I felt like maybe it was winding down, but then it ramped back up. And so now I'm like, yeah, now I fully think it fits into the Canon now both historically. And currently it's crazy. I will say though, I would just, this is completely unrelated, but I was again thinking about gay characters in this universe.

I think I said this to Emily a couple of weeks ago. How is it that it is the same sort of gay guy on at gay men because lesbians do not exist in this universe. That it was always the same type of like caricature of a gay guy, like in almost every franchise. So yes, I was shocked and hungry and thirsty.

When I saw Karen's assistant on Potomac, I was like, wow. A different kind of gay on this show. Amazing. What was his name? It's like Michael or like David, like 

Ama: Michael it's Michael he's like just a generic white guy. Yeah. 

Marshall: Generic white guy in an ill-fitting suit. Yeah. I love him. I love him. And 

Ama: Yeah, like he's great, but yeah, he's taken care of 

Marshall: not a lot of variety, not a lot of variety.

I was 

Emily: thinking about the gay friends on these shows and I thought about Jill Zarins gay husband. She called him. 

Ama: Remember that guy. 

Emily: What happened

Marshall: God. Cause when he popped up in Morocco, I was like, this is impossible. Not in Morocco

who goes to Morocco and then it's just oh my God, Brad. Hi. He must've known 

Emily: core skill was sneaky with that kind of thing. Yeah. 

Ama: Yeah. That's a Jill 

Marshall: move. Oh, Jill. Now looking at pictures of, I work with this snake on her head.

Danita: Do we have any, before we move to games, do we have any final thoughts or final questions or 

Marshall: I want to see maybe a gay kid. We have breasts. Oh, sorry.

Danita: And him, the first episode, I was like, wow, this is great. I'm very neutral on salt lake city. I know that's controversial, but it's just, 

Marshall: No, it's just how 

Danita: I feel wives started. And they all have real relationships with each other and it wasn't as produced. And I just feel like salt lake city, they all know the game.

They all know what they're doing. And and I think with Brooks, like he became this extra housewife on the show. It was a lot, it was a lot. 

Ama: What about Bronwyn's side? 

Danita: His daughter. Cynthia's daughter. Yup. She's queer. Yeah, 

Marshall: Yeah. Yeah. More of that, just more, more, more gay kids or like a queer character.

That's not an assistant like that.  Disney to the punch and have a fully fleshed out like gay character on screen please. 

Ama: Yeah. I feel like Cynthia and her daughter, that relationship has been the most I don't want to say accurately portrayed, but it's been the most 

Marshall: yeah. 

Ama: Yeah, totally.

Whereas like they've tried to make a production out of like Bronwyn son doing dregs and exploring their gender. And they're like, oh, but they're using different pronouns. That's weird. And maybe it's because of the city that they live in, but yeah. Let's make space for a fully fleshed out gay character.

Or, child of where it's not controversial yet brave to be that 

Marshall: person. Yeah. What about these husbands? I think it 

Emily: would be really cool for a character to come on. And when I say character, I mean like a housewife, whether that like a lesbian house-wide to come on and have figured their shit out and know that they're queer and not have it be like a Bronwyn, like where you're like, oh God Bronwyn what's going on here?

Please tell me this is pure, because I, 

Danita: Yeah. For a show that's so beloved by queer people, it is a very hetero show and the term housewife is very hetero. And I don't know that it's evolved. Yeah, past that per se. And I also think if they were to introduce a lesbian to the show, I think it would be, it would go similar to, Tiffany and in Dallas and

in Beverly Hills last year where it's like this token minority, and then they have to explain and justify and be the voice of reason. And, so I don't know how fair that would be, but I do. I do welcome it. I think we need that for sure. On that note, let's play a little game called, who said that?

Ama: And I, 

Danita: earlier today I've prepared five clips of Housewives speaking, but their voices are distorted and they aren't really popular quotes. Like I just pulled them. So I'm very interested to see how you guys do. And if you need a hint, I will give you the city, but, or if you want me to play them again, let me know.

But here is the first one and I'm, I think you'll be able to hear it, that necklace right and sweet gloss with distilled water. Cause I was cleansing it. I want to make sure that whatever her Deon 

Marshall: isn't on it. Unless you can change accents, I'd have to say Vanderpump. 

Danita: Nope. Good guess, but no, it is right city.

Emily: Really? Her glasses, her necklace went right into that distilled water. Did I hear that correctly?

Marshall: That's just a weird accident. And the only other way to accent is to read 

Danita: she's cleansing the bad energy from the necklace. 

Emily: Oh fucking Carlton. 

Danita: Yeah, Carlton. You got it. 

Marshall: The only other British person

Danita: Carlson one season housewife, Carlton who I think is under song. I agree. 

Emily: Speaking, 

Danita: I mean she she actually was openly bisexual. 

Marshall: Certainly she got a bad edit apparently. Yeah. Rumor was that they, they did a dirty, 

Emily: She did get to be in the lady Gaga 

Danita: video. So I think she was The most openly bisexual housewife we've ever had.

So shout out to Carlton. If you're listening, we love, okay. Here is the second clip. I feel like she's trying to make it very clear that she's the actress of the group. And the truth of the matter 

Emily: Is that none of us are in demand. Actor says, so stop killing 

Danita: your high horse. And like you're so much better than all of 

Marshall: us.

I've heard this exact clip recently. It's so easy to just to say Rena, but I don't think it works. Nope. 

Danita: Ism city, 

Emily: same state. We'll see, 

See, I knew I'd suck at this game, but I really don't know. 

Marshall: Yeah. Okay. So actresses in the OSI Heather Dube, wasn't an actress. Was she?

Yeah, she was, yeah, she was. It was it 

Ama: Heather? Yeah, she was 

Danita: on Heather Dobro. So it was about Heather. Oh, 

Marshall: Oh my God 

Emily: would be, in Heather's day, Shannon hates Heather Shannon, but 

Danita: don't give you a clue Slade smiley, 

Marshall: right? What's her name? 

Danita: No, 

In the clip, she's trying to like her and how they're having a dispute over an audition and they're and it was also like, because Gretchen and Alexis were also arguing around the same time about that, like newscaster position. 

Ama: I think I watched 

Emily: that season just over one weekend.

Blasted out of my mind on edibles. I don't remember anything.

Marshall: Yeah. 

Emily: Yeah. A lot of OCwas background for me. 

Danita: Okay. Next clip. Clip number three. Plus your car from the same cloth.

Marshall: Oh, that 

Emily: feels 

Marshall: like 

Emily: multi-million that's

wrong city. Okay. Multi cut from the same 

Marshall: cloth. Yeah, but who's no, you're shaking your head. 

Emily: Who would we 

Ama: be married to the love shade on that. 

Marshall: That's pretty shady. I'm trying 

Emily: to think of, is that shady? Karen it's carrot, right? Yeah. I mean she

thinking of queer, that's a whole other thing you could get into a thesis on Michael 

Ama: Darby, we could do a whole damn episode about Mike 

Marshall: and his sausage diabolical Dhabi. I'm just shocked that he's allowed cameras to capture him. 

Ama: That dinner exchange between her and Michael with the texts. And she's talk to me about it.

And I was just like, yes, give it to me, injected into my bay. 

Emily: They should all be like that. That's why Beverly Hills can just be so frustrating because there's none of that reality. 

Ama: Okay. 

Danita: Are we ready for the fourth clip?

Emily: is what a threat by bisexual? 

Ama: No, like B 

Danita: Y E O people.

Emily: It does sound like by Kyle. 

Marshall: No. It's giving me like, not Porsche stocks, Alicia, I don't know. 

Danita: Yeah, it's hard. It's hard out of context. It's hard. It's in Russ. It's in response to a Facebook post 

Marshall: or they never talk about social media. 

Danita: This was an early season of this city. Oh boy. I suck at this.

It's one of the, one of the biggest Housewives villains is saying this, I would say, 

Marshall: Ooh. Oh, okay. I'm going to say, oh, see, because they brought up Christianity is that I would say no Josie. Yeah, New York. No Josie, Emily, sorry. Kyle Josie. If it's fence, I don't know if some of the oldest seasons, no Jersey.

Ama: Oh, I stupid.

you sure you didn't have a weed before you came on here? I started God. I was 

Emily: like no more for me.

Danita: The biggest New Jersey villain.

Emily: Yes. 

Danita: Danielle sob in response to a Facebook group. That was like auntie Danielle Staub made by Jack Jacqueline's daughter, 

Marshall: Ashley.

Emily: She was chaotic. And that's funny. I remember watching season one of real Housewives of New Jersey and making my boyfriend watch it. And it's not for him. It's for me. And he's not that into it. And I'm like, 

Ama: look, they're paying me. There's 

Danita: so much like controversy and definitely Caroline and Albert are involved in the mob and yeah, there's just, the family drama is so good.

Like the S like the godfather could never, honestly it's just 

Emily: so good. Okay. We ready for the 

Danita: last clip? I think after our conversation, I have utmost confidence. Let's hear it. 

A hillbilly can make people feel welcome. She was saying we didn't make them feel welcome. Welcome to my trailer.

Hello. I can have a good 

Emily: time. Sonja Morgan and Ramona talking about Viva and the turf. 

Danita: I knew you guys were going to get that one.

Marshall: You can tell by the cadence of the like

Emily: fascinating.

Danita: I think for Ramonaand Sonia are just at the top of their game in those, in that season. And that episode there, their dynamic is so funny, they just Tweedledee and they just go around screeching and it's yeah yeah.

Thank you so much for being on our first. First episode. This was amazing. Yeah. Thanks for having us. Where can people find you on 

Marshall: the internet? Oh God, we have different handles. Don't wait, trash box sex.

Now Instagram though is like the place that we post things first, like in terms of like when an episode is up or anything like that. So that's trash box Housewives. Correct. 

Emily: And our P our Twitter is you could be our 40th follower. It's at the trash box pod. And we put out episodes of we recap every week's all of the episodes, except for OSI.

It's dead to me every week around late Friday night, early Saturday morning. And you can check us out on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to 

Ama: podcasts. We have a lot of fun. Amazing. Thank you so much for. Being part of this, it 

Danita: was amazing as for us, you can find us on the internet at high, low brow pod everywhere.